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    <title>Eleutian SpeakENG Development Blog - altnetconf</title>
    <link>http://blog.eleutian.com/</link>
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    <copyright>Eleutian Technology</copyright>
    <lastBuildDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 06:59:24 GMT</lastBuildDate>
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      <dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
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        <p>
So everyone's been talking about the ALT.NET conference, <a href="http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archive/2007/10/14/asp-net-mvc-framework.aspx">Microsoft's
take on MVC</a>, and such, so I thought I'd briefly chime in with my thoughts. <a href="http://blog.eleutian.com/content/binary/WindowsLiveWriter/MonoRailvs.System.Web.MVC_106/Photo%2018.jpg" atomicselection="true"><img style="border-right: 0px; border-top: 0px; border-left: 0px; border-bottom: 0px" height="180" alt="Photo 18" src="http://blog.eleutian.com/content/binary/WindowsLiveWriter/MonoRailvs.System.Web.MVC_106/Photo%2018_thumb.jpg" width="240" align="right" border="0" /></a> First
of all, the ALT.NET conference rocked and I'm very much looking forward to the next
one. Secondly, I must disclose that <a href="http://codebetter.com/blogs/scott.bellware/default.aspx">Scott
Bellware</a> paid me to say that ($1, signed) but I would have said it anyway.
</p>
        <p>
OK, so then there's the whole MVC thing. This too was awesome and I should try and
collect a signed dollar from Scott Guthrie. It's obvious he and the team working on
MVC are doing their research. That said, as many of you know we're a MonoRail shop
here. We've been using it heavily for about a year now and we've got a lot of code
written on it. So what will the impending release of the MS MVC framework mean for
us? What will it mean for MonoRail? 
</p>
        <p>
I can tell you that for us, it will very likely mean a week of exploration and quite possibly
followed by a week or two of porting. That's right, it looked that good. Everything
about it was done right or flexible enough to be made right so there really isn't
any room to complain about it. MonoRail has more features at the moment, but the ones
we use wouldn't be difficult to implement on top of MS MVC.
</p>
        <p>
So what does this mean for MonoRail? I can't <a href="http://www.castleproject.org/">speak
to that</a>, but I will tell you what I would like for it to mean. What I'd like to
see is MonoRail become more like Rails. I want to see something built on top of MS
MVC that even more-so favors Convention over Configuration--including but not limited
to generators and such. I want it to take it to the next level and be exactly what
the community wants for a C# web platform. Dave Laribee <a href="http://codebetter.com/blogs/david_laribee/archive/2007/10/16/system-web-eatitmonorail.aspx">says</a> that
"MonoRail will remain a viable option for smaller or more edgy shops." I think that's
true, but I want to see it built on top of MS MVC. 
</p>
        <p>
Why throw away all of the framework code built into MonoRail? A few reasons:
</p>
        <ol>
          <li>
Castle has already been <a href="http://svn.castleproject.org:8080/svn/castle/trunk/MonoRail2/">experimenting</a> with
throwing most of it away and starting over anyway.</li>
          <li>
MS MVC will be built into the .NET Framework. This means  easier sells to
big shops, and MonoRail would be just a free supplement rather than a replacement/paradigm
shift, making it an easier sell.</li>
          <li>
MS MVC appears to be more modular. There is no massive Controller or ginormous SmartDispatcherController.
You can even start with a one method interface and implement your controller however
you want.</li>
          <li>
Routing.</li>
          <li>
It was built with testability in mind. MonoRail is now mostly testable, but it is
not nearly as clean as it could be... or as MS MVC's testability looks.</li>
          <li>
We can probably all but throw away our <a href="http://blog.eleutian.com/2007/02/21/EleutianToolsCodeGeneratorSource.aspx">codegenerator</a> and
use lambdas. We could reinvent this for MonoRail in .NET 3.5 but then we'd be... reinventing...
it... 
</li>
        </ol>
        <p>
Whatever we decide to do when it comes out, we'll talk about our experiences so you
can judge for yourself after we judge for ourselves how viable it will be to port
from MonoRail to MS MVC.
</p>
        <img width="0" height="0" src="http://blog.eleutian.com/aggbug.ashx?id=77a7c478-8e27-4eb4-b261-df50bfe7aab4" />
      </body>
      <title>MonoRail vs. System.Web.MVC</title>
      <guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.eleutian.com/PermaLink,guid,77a7c478-8e27-4eb4-b261-df50bfe7aab4.aspx</guid>
      <link>http://blog.eleutian.com/2007/10/16/MonoRailVsSystemWebMVC.aspx</link>
      <pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 06:59:24 GMT</pubDate>
      <description>&lt;p&gt;
So everyone's been talking about the ALT.NET conference, &lt;a href="http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archive/2007/10/14/asp-net-mvc-framework.aspx"&gt;Microsoft's
take on MVC&lt;/a&gt;, and such, so I thought I'd briefly chime in with my thoughts. &lt;a href="http://blog.eleutian.com/content/binary/WindowsLiveWriter/MonoRailvs.System.Web.MVC_106/Photo%2018.jpg" atomicselection="true"&gt;&lt;img style="border-right: 0px; border-top: 0px; border-left: 0px; border-bottom: 0px" height="180" alt="Photo 18" src="http://blog.eleutian.com/content/binary/WindowsLiveWriter/MonoRailvs.System.Web.MVC_106/Photo%2018_thumb.jpg" width="240" align="right" border="0"&gt;&lt;/a&gt; First
of all, the ALT.NET conference rocked and I'm very much looking forward to the next
one. Secondly, I must disclose that &lt;a href="http://codebetter.com/blogs/scott.bellware/default.aspx"&gt;Scott
Bellware&lt;/a&gt;&amp;nbsp;paid me to say that ($1, signed) but I would have said it anyway.
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
OK, so then there's the whole MVC thing. This too was awesome and I should try and
collect a signed dollar from Scott Guthrie. It's obvious he and the team working on
MVC are doing their research. That said, as many of you know we're a MonoRail shop
here. We've been using it heavily for about a year now and we've got a lot of code
written on it. So what will the impending release of the MS MVC framework mean for
us? What will it mean for MonoRail? 
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
I can tell you that for us, it will very likely mean a week of exploration and quite&amp;nbsp;possibly
followed by a week or two of porting. That's right, it looked that good. Everything
about it was done right or flexible enough to be made right so there really isn't
any room to complain about it. MonoRail has more features at the moment, but the ones
we use wouldn't be difficult to implement on top of MS MVC.
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
So what does this mean for MonoRail? I can't &lt;a href="http://www.castleproject.org/"&gt;speak
to that&lt;/a&gt;, but I will tell you what I would like for it to mean. What I'd like to
see is MonoRail become more like Rails. I want to see something built on top of MS
MVC that even more-so favors Convention over Configuration--including but not limited
to generators and such. I want it to take it to the next level and be exactly what
the community wants for a C# web platform. Dave Laribee &lt;a href="http://codebetter.com/blogs/david_laribee/archive/2007/10/16/system-web-eatitmonorail.aspx"&gt;says&lt;/a&gt;&amp;nbsp;that
"MonoRail will remain a viable option for smaller or more edgy shops." I think that's
true, but I want to see it built on top of MS MVC. 
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
Why throw away all of the framework code built into MonoRail? A few reasons:
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;ol&gt;
&lt;li&gt;
Castle has already been &lt;a href="http://svn.castleproject.org:8080/svn/castle/trunk/MonoRail2/"&gt;experimenting&lt;/a&gt; with
throwing most of it&amp;nbsp;away and starting over anyway.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;
MS MVC will be built into the .NET Framework. This means&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;easier sells to
big shops, and MonoRail would be just a free supplement rather than a replacement/paradigm
shift, making it an easier sell.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;
MS MVC appears to be more modular. There is no massive Controller or ginormous SmartDispatcherController.
You can even start with a one method interface and implement your controller however
you want.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;
Routing.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;
It was built with testability in mind. MonoRail is now mostly testable, but it is
not nearly as clean as it could be... or as MS MVC's testability looks.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;
We can probably all but throw away our &lt;a href="http://blog.eleutian.com/2007/02/21/EleutianToolsCodeGeneratorSource.aspx"&gt;codegenerator&lt;/a&gt; and
use lambdas. We could reinvent this for MonoRail in .NET 3.5 but then we'd be... reinventing...
it... 
&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ol&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
Whatever we decide to do when it comes out, we'll talk about our experiences so you
can judge for yourself after we judge for ourselves how viable it will be to port
from MonoRail to MS MVC.
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;img width="0" height="0" src="http://blog.eleutian.com/aggbug.ashx?id=77a7c478-8e27-4eb4-b261-df50bfe7aab4" /&gt;</description>
      <comments>http://blog.eleutian.com/CommentView,guid,77a7c478-8e27-4eb4-b261-df50bfe7aab4.aspx</comments>
      <category>development</category>
      <category>monorail</category>
      <category>mvc</category>
      <category>microsoft</category>
      <category>altnetconf</category>
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